The Lesbian and Gay Marriage Debate

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This is currently a heated issue in several parts of the world. I think the main problem with coming to an accepted conclusion as to whether gays should be allowed to marry each other is the fact that there is no accepted conclusion on what homosexuality actually is. If we cannot define homosexuality as a "disability", a "lifestyle choice", "social minority", how can we possibly decide what protected rights the homosexual population deserves?

I began another discussion on this site called "Homosexuality Is a Disorder??" because I think it is an idea that has been abandon for no good reason. If it was proven that homosexuality is a disorder, I think that the protected classification for the group would be undeniable in the United States. Marriage and equal rights would come under the American Disabilities Act, but that would be an easy solution. In reality, the gay community almost entirely refuses to accept the notion that they have a disorder. I think that a bit too much pride is in the nature of the homosexual matrix for any possible acceptance of a medical answer to their identity.

But even if the ideas of "disorder" or "disability" are rejected by the gay community, I think there is also substantial grounds for the classification of gays and lesbians as a "social minority". If this is the case, I do not think the compromise of allowance for civil unions should be acceptable. This causes a separate-but-not-equal society in the married world. Civil unions seem to allow for some rights but not for others. Separate-but-equal situations throughout history have created a situation where some people are "more equal" than others, and this makes no sense.

Having heard the stories of many gay men and lesbian women, I cannot honestly say that the gay preference is a "lifestyle choice". I think it is very ignorant of anyone to settle on the idea that these people chose to lead a gay or lesbian orientation. Most, if not all, of them have suffered serious struggles through their adolescence and adulthood over the issue of finding out they are gay. It's obvious to me that for a person to conclude that they are gay requires a discovery process rather than a personal selection process. This is unfortunate because it causes homosexuals to remain an invisible minority in that there is no test or way to prove someone is homosexual.

In conclusion, I feel that homosexuality is a disadvantage in the majority heterosexual world -- whether or not it is accepted as a disorder or a disability. This is evidence enough for me that at least classification of a social minority is appropriate. Nothing less than full marriage rights is the moral responsibility of any government. Civil unions are a good start and homosexuals should advocate for them and take advantage of them for now. However, civil unions should not be considered a full victory.

PUBLIC EDITORIAL ENTRIES APPEAR BELOW:

SEXUALITY: Heterosexual
GENDER: Male
TITLE: Editorial #2, by SBudda

In the recent election, the topic of gay marriage came to a head in 11 states. All 11 were considering a constitutional ban on gay marriage, and all 11 passed. As a citizen of one of those states (GEORGIA), I found the election results both typical, and quite sad. I'm a 26 year old straight male. I'm married. I don't care at all about gay marriage. I feel that all people have a right to make themselves miserable in anyway they choose, and marriage is surely a way to accomplish that. (Actually I'm quite happy in my marriage, but I find that cliché funny). I have found that most people in my age group tend to agree with me. The older generation tends to hate it. I've spoken with a number of people from the older generation about this. It was an unscientific sample of family, but it will have to do. To a person, all of them opposed it - and opposed it dramatically. When pressed to explain their viewpoint, most were unable to provide a satisfactory argument. For example. My father-in-law gave the reason that marriage is solely for the purpose of having raising children. I mentioned to him that he himself had gotten remarried at the age of 52 and asked him if he planned to have more children. He said that he was not planning on it, and when pressed that he was being hypocritical he simply turned the discussion to other matters. My other father-in-law (my wife and I are both the children of divorces) made a statement about marriage being holy. He was not opposed to the idea of civil unions, but simply opposed to the symentecs of it all. He was unable to provide adequate support for this idea. He is also going on his third divorce - so I am unsure what actually made his marriages holy in the first place. I've been able to make my own mother agree that the government really has no place in validating a marriage. I was able to demonstrate that requiring a religion to validate a marriage necessitates the invalidation of any marriage performed by a different religion (or by Elvis as the case may be). Therefore the purpose of the government isn't to validate it, but to record it. This way, if someone says they are married to me, I can prove or disprove the accusation in legal institutions. Despite this agreement, she is still against it. She offered no explanation other than it felt wrong. I believe this is the primary reason for banning gay marriage. Nothing. Perhaps nostalgia, perhaps fear, perhaps hate. I don't know the root cause. But apparently, neither do the people who feel this way. I welcome anyone to express the reasoning for their opposition towards this. I simply request that you answer the following questions... If your opposition is religiously based - do you also feel that marriages performed by a rabbi, justice of the peace, cleric, ship captain, skydiving Elvis, shaman, etc should also be invalidated? If so, why should one stop there? Those damned Catholics are pretty weird, so are those Unitarians, at what point does the invalidation end? If your opposition is based on symantecs, what's up with that? A rose by any other name is still a rose. You can call gay marriage "shitty mcshit _____" but it's still a marriage. Why do you feel the need to call the joining of two people in a legal fashion two separate things? Is it just a desire to be different from those "two fags that live together"? If your opposition is based on the idea that marriage itself would be hurt by it, perhaps you could explain why gay marriage is bad, but Brittany Spears being married for an hour is ok (in the legal sense). If you think that allowing gay marriage will start up a storm of polygamists, and incestual marriage and bestiality - then you have the hardest job. You'll need to explain why allowing two adults of the same gender will mean that people can marry animals - animals have no rights. You'll need to explain why it will make brothers and sisters marry when there is a genetic reason to avoid that. You will also need to explain why polygamy is bad if everyone involved is fully aware of the situation and chooses to be a part of it. After all, from a religious perspective, polygamy seems to be ok. (For the record, I would only want to make polygamy valid for people over the age of 25 - the whole child bride idea is bad enough for 2 people.) Finally, if you live in the South... please convince me of something. Please convince me that Southerners aren't total asshats who just like to hate anything different from them. This seems so much like the Civil Right's issues (from the standpoint that there seems to be no reason for opposing it) that it's really starting to piss me off. Good luck, I wish all respondents the best at changing my mind.

Editor's Notes: I think many people in the Northern United States do feel the same way as Southerners. The difference is, a lot of people in certain states of the North do not believe that the government should pass laws based on their own emotions. For example, a northerner might not like the idea of gays getting married in his/her church, yet they are less likely to pressure the state government to do anything about it. The same is true for Civil Rights with Black Americans. There is just as much racism in the North as there is/was in the South. However, Northern people might refuse to move to a neighborhood where there are Black people, but they won't expect the state government to institutionalize it. I believe this phenomenon occurs because the "Average Joe" in the North can have significant power at the local level "town hall" since most northern states are full of tiny powerful and sovereign municipalities (townships, boroughs, towns, cities, neighborhoods, etc.) whereas in the South, governmental power tends to be more concentrated at a county and state level. I noticed this when I stayed in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Virgina, and Delaware. Virginia had the most county and state power, but Connecticut had the most localized municipal town power. Pennsylvania also had a lot of localized town power. Delaware was a hybrid mixture.

SEXUALITY: Monosexual
GENDER: Female
TITLE: Anonymous

As long as they are consenting adults. Who should judge. However some of theses stories u have don't fit the description. I don't find that acceptable. Procet children!

Editor's Note: Please Report Violations in any stories that are not within our Guidelines.

SEXUALITY: Straight
GENDER: Other
TITLE: They Should Be Allowed - A Straight Transvestite

I am a Heterosexual Transvestite, & I feel that Homosexuals should be allowed to marry just as Heterosexuals should. Almost every woman I have dated has been a bisexual (I am the best of both worlds, I am their female lover but with a penis, so that makes their family happy). I have witnessed many hetero & homosexual marriages with my girlfriends & fiancees, & I saw how happy those couples were, & I could never deniy them that happyness. So I speaking for all my girlfriends & fiancees say that I only support marriages between people who love each other. -posted by The Dark Prince

SEXUALITY: Heterosexual
GENDER: Male
TITLE: Gay Marriage, Lenus

I am religious, so I don't BELIEVE that gays should marry. On the other hand, I understand that gays are people. I'm 16 and I deal with a lot of people who think they're gay, or at least they want to experiment it. If that is the lifestyle they choose, so be it. If they choose to marry, so be it. I'm not marrying any gay guys, so it doesn't really matter to me, but I think my religion ways heavily on that subject. -----Furthermore. I don't think the government should even be deciding this anyway. The only thing within a marriage that deals with the government is the marriage liscense. SO what? It should be left to the churches to decide who to marry and who not to marry. I mean, HELLO!! Seperation of Church and State! think about it!

SEXUALITY: Other
GENDER: Male
TITLE: Supplement by Editor APatcher

I was watching a documentary on WW II in Japan. I see what U.S. soldiers went through to protect freedom around the world and essentially pave the road for further equality in the U.S. nation. Allied soldiers did not spill their blood so we could have less freedom. They fought for the rights of others, even if they didn't agree with their opinions, backgrounds, and lifestyles. The soldiers who were truly fighting for the cause of freedom, like my grandfather, knew the dynamics of diversity and civil liberty. He knew that everyone is a minority in one way or another.

A federal republic with a representative democracy is not a system where "Rule by the Majority" is the law of the land. The reason why rule by majority does not work is because minority groups will rebel, in turn, causing a less civilized society that the majority will be exposed to at some point. Squashing the rebellion of minorities causes an even less civilized society, in turn, causing more minority rebellion. Other minority groups that feel poorly treated might even join forces to start a revolution if the situation becomes critical enough. Therefore, it is in the best interest of the majority to protect the basic human rights of everyone in order to prevent a society from becoming rebellious, violent, and hateful.

The phrase "Equal Justice Under Law" inscribed at the top of the U.S. Supreme Court building does not mean the majority can impose its will upon minority groups. Especially in America, if we start a line of thinking that consists of banishment of citizens that are not in the mainstream, it won't be long before we learn the hard lesson that very few people are actually in the theoretical "main-stream". -----

Then I recalled a friend's words ... She said that there is no such thing as "equality". It shudders my soul at how incorrect another human being could possibly be. It was those old tyrannical systems we defeated that allowed some people to be "more equal" than others. That fundamental belief is contradictory to itself, and it is hard to keep morale of soldiers and citizens when the governmental system becomes too oppressive. People that believe in reduction of civil liberties (reduction of equality under law) should be utterly ashamed of themselves. -----

Heterosexuals that think gay people should settle for civil unions are essentially saying that gay people are second class citizens. They believe second class gay citizens should settle for second rate partnerships and second rate human rights. A nation that moves in such a direction institutionalizes classification of people and discrimination against a social minority. Such a nation will become divisible and ultimately crumble slowly from within possibly resulting in a civil war, total economic collapse, and complete loss of influence in world affairs. -----

This is not a prediction ... This is history.

Some may accuse me... "What a bleeding heart liberal communist thing to say."
Actually, it is not liberal or communist. It is politically moderate. I am a moderate.

SEXUALITY: Bisexual
GENDER: Male
TITLE: Homosexual Marriage by Yoboy

I live in Vermont and as many are aware we went through the civil union debate. I could care less what two people do behind closed doors. It's not my business nor yours or the Government for that matter. I do however object to calling it a marraige. That word was taken many thousands of years ago. I don't think two guys being married or two women as being any less important.

SEXUALITY: In-Between
GENDER: Male
TITLE: i feel that they should

I think that no matter what your sexuality is you have the FREEDOM to choose who you marry. It (to me) doesnt matter what your sexuality is... gay, straight or bisexual. This is supposed to be a contry of freedoms, all are supposed to have that freedom. I agree with the editor on his supplemental. To give gay and lesbiens a "civil union" is a term to move them into a second class catigory and make them sound like a lower class person based on their sexuality. I say give them the freedom that they are rightfully intitled to. By the way i live in mass so i live in the state that has (so far... and hope that they continue to) allow gay and lesbien marridges. By Gary M

SEXUALITY: Straight
GENDER:
TITLE: Yes and No

It is fairly simple. Gay MARRAGE should not be allowed. Marrage is the uniting of a man and a woman not a man and a man or woman and a woman. But there should be a different type of marrage for gay people. Being gay is not a crime so why punish people for being that way. They should have every right we do. Mabey someone should create a name for a gay marrage insted of "marrage" which should be reserved for a man and a woman. by Kyle from the conservative republican side!!!!

SEXUALITY: Gay
GENDER:
TITLE: British gay marriges

Here in the UK marriage affects the taxes paid by two people living together, espeicaly bad is inheritance tax, a gay couple can live togther for decades and then lose a lot of money (in the midst of berevment) because one of them died. When marriage gained a legal framework under outside the church it ceased to be a religous matter, and became a goverment matter. Why should heterosexuals have more rights than homosexuals? Unless you want to base all our laws on supperstition, perhaps bring back the witchhunter general and the inquisition? Stone women for adultery? All we ask is to be treated equaly under law, so whats the problem.

SEXUALITY: Homosexual
GENDER: Male
TITLE: Never Thought WE would be talking about this

Well I have been out and gay for over 30 years now. I have earned the right to state personal feelings and freedom of speach. Marriage, the crazy thing about it most mean spend their lives wondering what it would be like NOT to be married while a good percentage of gay men DREAM of getting married. Well I for one have had no desire of getting "married" in the legal terms. I have had a wonderful LTR of over 20 years with the same man, however walking down the isle in a church is not what makes the relationship. Understanding feelings and emotions are the greatest mountain to climb in any relationship. Your sexual desires has nothing to do with the bottom line. With men I have found that sexual desires and emotions are two seperate issues. With females they go hand-n-hand. Lesbian's dream of the wedding, the whole union as they should. Men on the other hand would rather be doing "guy" stuff and when you stop and look back at all the weddings you were part of, the groom was always hanging out with the "guys" talking watching TV or walking around the dressing room in his underwear waiting to be told what to do. Most of them experience the same thing and would trade every thing to not go through that experience again in their life. As a gay man, I will go on the record and say, all should have the right to get married if they want to. I do not always agree with the gay community on their legal desires on what should be right. Human Rights were designed to protect all American's not just gay ones. If everyone could just set a side just for a moment and look at the world as a whole and not as just "me" can you even dream of what a wonderful place it would be. I am surprised every day of my life and consider myself to be blessed. I live in a country that now for the most part has heard about me, some my desire me, some may hate me and then there are those who would love me. That is worth getting up every morning for. We are blessed to have freedoms that most of Americans take way too much for granted, but, I show my support for the men and women who fight to protect our freedoms. The government will always have their say in just about everything we allow them to. Control is the number one reaction to the things we fear the most. Please stand up for your belief and be heard, or you will fall for anything.

SEXUALITY: Bisexual
GENDER: Female
TITLE: YES!

Of course they should have the right to get married. Any way,people are evolving and it's only a matter of time before the evil right wing religious assholes loose their nazi-like grip on the world and everyone will be free of rediculous percecution.

i am just saying that gay marriages are kind of a okay thing. i mean that if gay men or gay women want to have same sex marriage it is their choice. this is the freedom country ,the country of choice , the country of oppritunity. if the coutry want to stop people from expressing their love then we must be living in the wrong country.

I really think two people pf the same sex should be allowed to get married. There are many reasons being. Gay couples should have as equal rights as straight couples. Also, could someone tell me where in the bible it says that two people of the same gender cannot become joined in the sacred unity that is marrage? People tend to use the bible as a way of dissplaying their homophobic feelings. Do tell me, what is wrong with two people of the same gender getting married? Are we not in a country that is supposidly free? Also, the government should have no say in this matter. I am just 13, and I want to get married when I grow older. I hope that will be possible.

Of course they should. In the UK we have a civil partnership, which is just a rip-off of marriage. I believe if you love someone truly, then there should be no problem whatsoever in marrying anyone, be it the same or opposite sex!

There is no reason two men or two women should not be able to marry! Around the world every governments background is based on religion in someway or another. Religion looks down on homosexuality be it the bible or the Quran etc. These books alledgedly set guide lines for how we should live our lives, homosexuality not being one of them.

Why should gay people be able to marry?

Love is love sometimes it is so strong and marrage is the ultimate unity between two people. PEOPLE ! Human beings just like hetrosexual people we bleed we feel and we see no difference between us and hetrosexuals.

Being gay is only .5% of who I am. It's importance is as dismal as my hair color, my height, etc. Why not say I can't marry because I'm left handed. All homosexuals are human beings first and foremost. What is so wrong about two people (of the same sex) wanting to share a lifetime of commitment with each other, and letting it be recongized legally? It's only love. Personally, I'm not asking for an understanding from the U.S Government, only for respect. Respect as HUMAN BEING!

Hello im 15 years old and came out to my friends and family about 5 months ago, a couple of days ago my friends asek me whether or not I would get married to a man when im older. I thought long and hard about it and reached the conclusion that yes I would, I think its important that someone has another person as they get older, religious beliefs aside. As a younger person I have different views on most things, but I think that too many people fly off the handle when it comes to homosexual marrage. If they have religious beliefs that don't allow gay marrage then fine, but thats you not everyone else, were in an age now when literally no one can mind their own buisness.

This is my view as a straight guy: Some guys like blonde women, some brunettes, some redheads. Some particularly like black women, European women, tall women, short women... and some guys like other guys. I don't distinguish, and as long as gay men accept my preference to enter relationships with women I'll respect their right to do so with gay men. Similar with lesbians.

I believe gay and lesbian marriage should be recognised to assist in cultural acceptance... notice the phrasing. Governments do *NOT* control marriages, they just decide not to recognise the gay and lesbian ones in a legal manner. I don't see gays and lesbians as being any different to me, so why shouldn't their marriages be legally recognised?

Marriage is just a cultural item anyway, originally based on religion but it's got to a point where as people we find the idea appealing... maybe it calls to some innate desire in humans for stability in life, and to be with the man/woman he/she loves (terms totally interchangeable) for as long as both people are alive... Well we can dream about being with them forever, but if us straight people can do it why can't gays and lesbians? To me it's like refusing all blondes legal recognition of marital state purely because they're blonde and marriage isn't for blondes.

People have enough trouble even admitting being gay in the whole straight community, there's so much pressure put on you to be the perfect person, anything that taints that idea ruins your whole image. I know plenty of gay AND bisexual guys and girls, they shouldn't be told by the government OR the church what to do. I think the term marriage is defined as... two people expressing their love for each other. WHO IS THE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE THEIR OWN PERSONAL OPINION ON WHETHER A MAN/MAN OR WOMAN/WOMAN LOVES EACH OTHER AS DEEPLY AS ANY OTHER MAN/WOMAN? This subject really bugs me, the gays and bi's have enough trouble even speaking out and being open about their sexuality, and NO it isn't your choice... you don't choose you like guys, or girls... or both, it's a mental thing, it comes from your experiance, if you've only had sex or relationships with the same sex, your more likely to be gay or lesbian, yet on the other hand, there are the bi's to consider in here, we cop themost shit, yeah so the straight people hate gays... but we are hated by the gays AND straights. Gay's say we're faking it and the straight's say we're not a part of their society what is the world coming to, we're all human beings, FORGET THE WARS FORGET THE FIGHTS, BUT FOR FUCK SAKE HUMAN RIGHTS, and if you don't think GAYS are human, take one look at yourself, becuase sure as hell you've thought about the same sex once in a while... your not completely straight, and as for the church, they can get screwed!!!!! Coming from the bi-sexual who is a Pagan crazy woman, and she LOVES being bi, and nobody can/will stop her!!!! SCREW YOU ALL LET THE GAYS BE MARRIED IN PEACE!!!!!

hiya.. i just want to say.. im a 36 yold gay male married to my partner of 6 years and myself along with almost 8000 other couples have married in this state and the sky hasnt fallen as some politicians on beacon hill thought would happen... i say if u want to marry , then go right ahead.. its your RIGHT as an american..

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